Sarah, what a pleasure to be here with you, amongst all of your fantastic pieces. Thank you for welcoming us into your holy space. I am amazed by everything I see. These pieces on the table in front of us are so lovely and meticulously stitched. What does it take to achieve such technique?

I know, it's like a long process that makes my hands hurt!

That makes your garments even more precious!

My hands hurt more from the art. I'm doing a lot of applique work, which is the technique employed to make those hearts you see right there. It’s not one of my pieces but it represents the technique I am working with. I bring them to the workshops I teach to show the students what’s possible.

It’s not very popular where I come from in Italy, but I love how layered the history of applique and quilting is.

What’s the heirloom piece out there?

Crochet, knitted throws, and embroidered linens are the most popular. I inherited a lot of fabric material from my grandmother after she retired from working in her hardware and home appliances shop.

I love a good hardware store abroad! I mean, the state of New York has some great ones and I have had some of the most amazing conversations at these locations.

When I visited Senegal, I learned a lot about the history of African arts and crafts and saw how deeply ingrained creativity is in their culture. Especially when it comes to textile production. Your work builds upon your heritage as a Nigerian-American artisan and artist, but it also draws inspiration from the shared African experience, which also means unpacking the traditions that came out of colonization.

Isn’t it great to learn about African heritage through the beauty generated by art? And on top of that, learn about it in a place where the majority of people share the same complexion and are in charge of their own narrative instead of being marginalized?

It was definitely an eye-opener and it made me reflect on how whitewashed and one-sided history is. For example, while there, I learned that the Netherlands were the first, and possibly worst, colonizers. In my mind, France and Britain had been the first to do it.

That’s very interesting. This fabric I have here called Ankara is originally Dutch but wax printed. And I never made that connection before because Africans wear this a lot. I have used it a lot in some of my work and it’s a very typical print. The idea that this comes from the first enslaved people through the first people who have used their white privilege to capture other humans is actually quite upsetting but I think it’s been reclaimed beautifully, to the point I don’t even associate it with the Dutch.

Another thing that emerged from that trip is how reductive the narrative surrounding Africa and its people is. For example, in Senegal, not everybody belongs to the same tribe, as is true for many of the countries within the continent. Just like in Nigeria, the tribes are quite different from each other and this was weaponized by European colonists too.

Absolutely. For example, my sister’s husband is Edo. So now we have Edo in our family too, and it’s like a whole different race. That’s the thing about humanity in general, I can say I am Nigerian but that can mean so many different things for me and my brother-in-law who is also Nigerian. And it makes us look at each other through these differences instead of looking at how we complement each other. And I think that’s one thing that football does, it brings all different types of people together.

There’s definitely an element of unity that comes from the game that’s exclusive to this sport.

Yet, in the 2018 World Cup, for example, people found a way to make it a point about race and be divisive with the French team. If they won they were French, if they lost they were reminded of their Blackness and demonized. And it’s really disappointing because you want it to be this pure, beautiful thing. But I think there is a lot of healing happening in the world right now through football because so many different cultures can engage with this thing. You cannot do that with Squash. With football, every part of the world has a connection.

It’s also because it’s the cheapest game you can play. You don’t need much, just some rolled-up fabric or paper and any other item as a goalpost.

Or playing with a grapefruit! My father has these marks on his legs and he told me it was from playing football with a fruit. It just sounded crazy to me, but then, thinking about it now, I have heard Trevor Noah say he was playing with bricks. Maybe not football but yeah...

It’s a common ground to bond over even when we travel abroad or migrate to other places.

It is such a beautiful way to build community and shatter boundaries. I think even within Africa, colonization has created this competitiveness amongst our people. And it’s so special to have something so unifying. I don’t think there’s anything alike in America. I mean, football here has become so commodified.

It is a different approach to how people engage with sports.

Even tennis! I love tennis and I have been playing for the majority of my adult life, but it’s not seen as a tool for aggregation. I was a very competitive athlete in school, I was a track runner but I loved every sport. I played volleyball, basketball…I played baseball and didn’t like it but I tried everything. I think that I just loved being on a team, being a part of something. And, interestingly, I like tennis now. I believe it reflects a bit on my love for solitude at the moment, my choice of sport mirrors the different stages of my life. There is such a special feeling, a sense of belonging, that comes from sports that we lose after adolescence. But we could access that feeling again if we want just by being active and it’s so rewarding for our body and mind.

Being active in adulthood feels like a task, something you have to do to keep your health from deteriorating, rather than an activity that can lead to so many other benefits.

Being that I am so competitive, I really had to rewire my relationship with sports as an adult! Competitiveness is a disease! *Laughs* I am joking, but this self-gratification comes from being competitive which I bring with me into my work also. I am so ambitious, when I had this idea for this company it was like a rocket. It just took off. The first year was crazy, we made more than 100 dresses.

*Gasp* for such a small brand that’s wild!

The orders were coming from everywhere in the world. The following year we were in The Met, and that was year two of having a company. Thinking about the speed of that is cool. If I heard this from a friend I’d be like “That’s amazing for you”, but being inside of it, it’s not that amazing. I think that there's something to be said for consistency, stability, and longevity. Having a focus and keeping your head in it, not looking around, and not comparing what you're doing to other people's work. There’s such a derivative nature in fashion and art, and also this energy that flows around us all the time. Rick Rubin talks about it in his book 'The Creative Way', about how some people are more in tune and so they move faster than others and it ends up looking like somebody stole your idea.

I read somewhere that once you come up with an idea and don’t act on it right away, the idea is now out there in the universe for anybody to grab.

We are all just kind of ready to consume something at the same time, or rather, the idea ripens at the same time. Like the whole patchwork craze that happened around the time I made those dresses…it was really a moment. And it has died down a little bit but I am still me. It’s funny to see how the reception is still there, it’s still very positive and people are intrigued by it. They want to learn about sewing, they want to learn what’s so interesting about patchwork, or how I got into it but it has lost the impulse purchase moment. Our sales are way lower now and that’s fine for me. I think now…we hit a sweet spot and I just want to maintain and maybe grow in the future.

Do you feel any particular way about being a small company and the implications that come with that in today’s world?

I am not worried about scaling. Being a pioneer of this movement is the byproduct of what I have been doing my whole life. I don’t really care about selling, I just want to continue being true to myself and what I have always done. And it’s interesting to analyze, going all the way back to running, how I taught myself to slow down and let it be an endurance game.

That is very important, especially in the field of fashion. To be successful long-term, not maybe in the mainstream sense of the word, but to continue doing what you love, you need to put some horse blinkers on and pave your own path. You need to be true to your mission and constantly remind yourself why you are doing it, otherwise, the foundation is flimsy and it will collapse at the first weft of strong wind.

I love that you're saying that because it is so important to keep the blinders on. And I have been pretty badly ripped off. Like many, many times, I have a folder of just screenshots of all the people that copied me and I think there's actually something positive I'm getting from it now in hindsight. It was such a tender pain every single time someone would DM me a copy and it was so frustrating.

They do say that copy is the highest form of flattery!

This is so random but do you know Ira Glass? He was dating my friend and he's subsequently become my friend, so I see him randomly sometimes. He’s a huge radio personality, and people have kind of stolen everything he’s done and tried to replicate it because it was successful so I felt comfortable telling him about what was happening to me. And he was like “Actually, it’s more of a compliment.” I asked him how he was not annoyed by all these people appropriating his style and he was like “It is my style, and when I see that type of dress I know it is YOUR style”. I am not this huge household name where every country has heard my voice so I suffered from impostor syndrome.

I think people can discern what’s genuine from the copy. And as far as I am concerned, I can see how genuine and authentic your craft is. It is meticulous. It’s a labor of love and passion. It’s the result of everything that was passed down to you by your family and this will resonate with people.

I think that is why they try to make it their own, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. A lot of my work is a take on somebody else’s, but when it comes from your heart it’s different. I put these pieces together during COVID, in my apartment and I saw all of them come to life. So it’s interesting seeing them being made by other people in ways that are so similar to mine.

It’s hard to replicate your work though, because each piece is so unique and different from the other.

For sure! Most of them are custom pieces. I had this client message me a picture of another dress and ask me if I could use the same colors. It’s fine, but the idea of customization is so new to people.

This is crazy because it’s how things have historically been done! By hand, one of one.

If you go to a really good antique store you can find people’s initials embroidered in clothing and that’s such a rare thing nowadays. I’d like to do that, I’d like to bring more of that in. The one-of-one model is very special to people but also a bit confusing because they want what they see in the picture. It’s gonna have the same colors and energy around it but it’s not enough, people really want to know exactly what they are getting. That’s the biggest lesson I have had to learn because I love the element of surprise and I trust the artist.

Trying to dictate what an artist should do is unfair. You can give them an idea or parameters but then you should let their creativity take the lead.

Yes, let them mold the idea. If we challenge each other to paint a sun, the result will be completely different on my paper and your paper. And you need to trust your interpretation of the sun. In the beginning, I had a lot of people come to me and complain I delivered a different palette from what they asked for. In total, it was maybe 15 people who came forward with this complaint but each time was very brutal. Because each pattern takes up to one hour to make and then you have to live with it. You lay it out on the table, look at the ensemble, and I love it every single time! I would never send something to someone that I didn't love. And then they tell me that they don’t and it feels personal versus the mass-produced stuff.

It probably has to do with the fact that we have been wired to think everything has to be perfect to be of high quality. Everything needs to be perfectly regular and the same and little imperfections are not acceptable.

Yeah, Oh my God. That’s a whole thing too. Why do you want perfection, what is that? Because perfection is very boring to me!

Additionally, people are not used to buying something and keeping it for the rest of their lives anymore. They want to buy something that they can toss out the next season, so it’s hard to reconcile the fact that you may love clothes and you want quality but quality can still break and you have to get it repaired instead of trashing it at the first tear.

It’s funny you say that because yesterday I bumped into this lady that I worked with on a shoot in 2021, and I didn’t really remember what she looked like but I remembered this vintage Ralph Lauren shirt she had on and I took a picture of it and I reminded her of it and she told me I could just have it now because it had stained. The idea of clothing being disposable like that is so foreign to me. And it’s just the norm here.

Well, when you can buy a new one for 10 or 20 dollars at shops like Zara or Shein, who cares about keeping something forever?

I love what we are doing here because we are reusing, reworking, patching things, mending, and also just creating new things out of old stuff. That’s basically it, and that’s a message in a lot of ways because our prices are a bit inaccessible. After all, it’s all handmade here in New York.

It sounds inaccessible but if you take into account the process behind making one of your garments then it’s actually quite cheap.

People do not realize the cost of the labor and our materials especially, since we are working with antique textiles most of the time. I would love my prices to be lower but that’s just not possible.

Nobody would look at a big brand name and say it’s too expensive for what it is though. Sure, they can criticize the price tag but they still want it. And the fabrication isn’t even as good or unique as your pieces because most of this stuff is made in places where labor is cheap and the materials aren’t even the best they could find. Smaller designers and artisans deserve praise and reverence because they are creating their items first-hand.

I like the idea of giving someone something that they can touch and feel is connected to something they like or want to be. And I hope to do that too, like to inspire people to think about what they buy more intentionally. It doesn’t even have to be about clothing, maybe it’s the coffee shop where they get their morning drink and they choose it because they use compostable cups.

It creates a cycle of positivity too. A domino effect, no? The people who are intentional about how they spend their coins become more sustainable in all aspects of their life. And it goes back to that sense of community that sports brews too.

It’s a tiny adjustment but if more people did that it would make a huge change as far as the world shifting. I just want people to aspire to be better people. That’s all.

I think that’s a very noble ethos to have and a beautiful ending note to this super insightful conversation. Thank you again Sarah for sitting down with me and introducing you to your world and every little piece of the puzzle that has pushed you to start La Réunion.

My pleasure! Come back whenever!